index
and my friends were all very supportive which they always are at any time, and they always
have been. I hope everybody has, uh [as good of friends as I have had.]...
end Tape 6. side A
Tar)e6
side B
friends
WWII
Korean War 029
002 M. C. : [Margaret is laughing about a present her friend Helen made for her]... a fancy powder
puff.
L. L. : Your friend Helen made that?
M. C. : Yes, and she had crocheted something on the back of it you know, and then put a little rose
bud on it [laugh]. It was fancy. Of course I didn't care, I didn't see any body anyway.
But it was just something she could talk about. Um, but it was interesting.
005 L. L. : Urn, I'd like to ask you about World War II.
M. C. : Now, what was that?
L. L. : I'd like to ask you about World War II. Did you
M. C. : Oh
L.L. : Did you...
M.C. : Oh yes...
L. L. : Did you know anyone fighting over there?
M. C. : Oh my, yes. I knew all kinds of, that was, all kinds of people that were over there. In fact,
uh, uh, the boy across the street and his who cousin lived not too far from us, the cousin
died. The cousin's name was Frankin. That's uh, uh, I knew several people that lost their
Uves. And one, the son of very, very close friends, I was with him the day, I was with the
family the day before he was shipped over seas, and he was a, a lieutenant, uh, and, uh, in,
in, the reserves, and so he was one of the first to go. And, shortly after he landed over
there, he went out on a mission over the Black Forest, he was shot down in his plane, and,
uh, he died. They never found his body. Isn't that queer? And that, I think that that just
killed his father. His father had been in World War I. And they were very close friends of
ours. We went over as soon as we heard that they had received the telegram. At that time,
they lived at Kirkland. And we went over to be with them that night. And I ju, can just see
the father just pacing the floor. It was very sad, but I knew many that lost their lives. And
that's one reason why I've always been veiy, uh, close to war. I know enough about it to
know the heartaches that follow it.
And then in the Korean war when my own son had to go in. He was a junior at the
University, and in 3 weeks time, he was at the front. And, uh, they didn't call them
foxholes in that period, I don't know what they called them. But, he always took it very
well because he said, he wrote home and said the thing that bothered him more than
anything was to see the little children, you know, hurdled behind a wire fence. Uh, and it
was their crying at night that bothered him.
L. L. ; How was that for you knowing that your son was over there?
M. C. : He's never, he's never mentioned it and never talked about it since he came home. But 3
times his outfit was surrounded by the Chinese Communists at Chan-Jin dam. And that
was, uh, well you just pray all night long hoping that yours will be the one that gets out
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safely. Maybe that's a wrong way to look at it. There were 5,000 in his outfit and only
2,000 survived. Well, that's...
043 L. L. : Do you think that changed your relationship with your son?
M. C. : Well, he knew that I was supporting him all the way, and his grandmother was too because
we've always been,, faith has always been a great ingredient. And, uh, you know, you send
them things. One time I sent him cookies at Christmas time because he was there for a
whole year, and he was at the iront for a whole year. And, when they go,opened the
cookies, they were all moldy. That was a sad affair. Yes.
L. L. : What was it like when he came home?
M. C. ; Oh, it was wonderful. But I remember that when we got the notice that he had survived
this Chan-Jin dam episode that was so s, awfiil, they kept all the time and letting us know,
you know, that he was, uh, uh, his outfit was so bad. And of course, the Marines always
had it worse than anybody else because they are the ones that always go forward. And,uh,
I was in the beauty sh, shop when they called from home and said they'd just had a
telegram saying that he'd gotten out. Well, I've never talked about it to him since, and he's
never mentioned it except if he's with some of the fellows that he went to school with, uh,
they'll say, they'll, they'll talk about, you know, being in the Navy or the, the Marines are
greater than the Navy or all that stuff, just shu, but it's only in joking.
Well, you have many experiences but I never, e, will experience anything, uh, that was
so devastating as when he was in cap, you might say captivity, that's practically what it
was. And he said that they said the, the fighting their way out of there, they constantly said
the Lord's Prayer. And for some reason, some made it and some didn't. He gave his
helmet to the boy that, uh, was fighting next to him, and, and that friend was lost. You,
know, the, the, uh, the, you can't describe something far away, and you're life, I, I, wa,
war never gives us anything. That's for sure, and I'll, if there's anything I'll do that would
be to help stop it. I don't what I could do, but we never know. But the only way that you
can survive yourself is to become so busy that you forget self. And you know that other
people are suffering too. And it's up to you to do what you can to help alleviate any kind
of suffering. And that's, that, that I feel has made me more of a person than I ever would
have been. And maybe, maybe if anything is to be, become of war, that would be it. It
would bring us closer.
L. L. : What kind of things did you do to keep yourself busy?
war/work089 M. C. : Hum, I had a home, I had volunteer work to do, I was always busy. And there were those
that were home on leave that, and there were those that hadn't nu, wa, uh, that were
mentally distraught, and they had to send home. Those tu, because eveiy man can't stand
it. And you wonder what makes some tolerate pressure and other collapse under it. We
don't know until we're tested, do we?
war/daughter 098 L. L. : Did you talk to your daughter about Don being over there?
M. C. : Did I talk to my daughter about going to the doctors?
L. L. : No, did you talk to your daughter about Don being in Korea, did she know that...?
M. C. : Oh, no.
L. L. : You didn't.
M. C. : No, why, why bother her any more, she doesn't know what war is.
L. L. : Did she ever ask you?
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M. C. : I never talked to anybody about it. I don't talk to anybody except on an, on an occasion
when someone will ask a question. But the people, my own friends, they all knew about it
because they had sons also that were there.
friends 106 L. L. : Did you find support with your friends?
M. C. : Oh, definitely. That uh, that's all you can do. Now the boy, the boy across the street when
in when Don did, course he wasn't as old as Don, Don was a junior at the University, and,
and, uh, this body had just graduated from high school. And, uh, he was, he was sent home
on leave because he wasn't able to take what they were getting. And, at that time,uh,
when I heard he was coming home, I thought Don was coming home. But it didn't turn
out to be that way.
poetry 116 He we, he had to go through it all. And maybe it taught him a great many things too, I
don't know. We never know. It's hard to say where you learn something and where you
don't. But life is real and life is earnest, and the grave is not if 's goal. Dust thou art to
dust returneth, was not spoken of the soul. That has much more meaning to me than it did
when I first studied it in college. Well, that's interesting.
son/marriage 124 L. L. : What about, um, when Don got married?
M. C. : That was a beautiful, that was a beautiful wedding and a beautiful time. No Don ne, has
never given his family one minute's concern. Now that's unusual. But he's always been
sympathetic to different things.
He had a jo, he, he had work early, he, he worked when uh, uh, as a box boy, and he
worked, he delivered papers, he's always been very ambitious that way. I do, I can hardly
call it ambitious because, uh, when I think of, uh, one being ambitious, I think of being,
some only being over zealous rather than taking things in turn. But we would always, if he
told me, I think I told you this before, that he'd be home at a certain hour from the play-
field or form practicing foot ball. He was always home. He was a home-body like I was.
When, and, uh, uh, he still is because he keeps track of his family, and you'll notice that
when you go out to the lake.
And he's proud of them, and he, he does a great deal for everybody else. And he's
always been one whose noticed. One time he was, uh, a little late, by a little that would be
maybe a minute or so, I never had to be concerned. And, and he had stopped to talk to a
boy that was, uh, uh, on, uh, always on crutches. He was a spastic. And Don said, well,
he, he noticed him on the comer when he was delivering papers. And, he stopped to talk
to him because he said nobody else does.
And, uh, and wh, when he was, uh, I, I ca, I often think of this too, uh, uh there was
no, there were no, uhm dark people in out neighborhood. And a family moved in that had
a little by. Don was in the first grade. And, uh, he brought this little by home one day.
The body lived maybe about, oh 6 blocks from us. And, uh,he was a little dark boy. And,
uh, I was, I was, uh, uh, happy to see Don bring the boy home. He wasn't to, he wasn't the
little boy to meet his mother. And. uh, uh, Don always was a friend of that little boy. And,
uh, I, I often thought of that. They weren't friends too long, but what they had moved.
But it was interesting to see how he didn't know the boy was black. The, you know, uh,
and if you leave ch, children alone, they don't know whether they're Japanese or Filipino or
what they are, And, and I think it's wonderful. They just accept people. It's when parents
step in and speak of it that they take a second look. And sometimes, through the influence
of parents, it's not the best, uh, of what could have been. But that's interesting.
And I've noticed, I've watched my son often when he was just growing up. Now he
worked in this, at, uh, uh, at Unico for 37 years. And he was a bank manager, or I mean a
bank, on the bank board for University Savings Bank for 35 years, I think it was 35, it was
30-something. And, uh, he was, he always has been interested in the people on the lower
ning of the ladder. Now one time he took the family, the children were small, and he took
the whole family up to, um, Snoqualmie Falls for breakfast, could have been Easter or
some special occasion, but that didn't phase me at all. But, while we were, went in there, I
saw him go over, he had reserved a private room, but I saw him go over in the general
dining room and speak to a lady. So, when he came, and he talked to her for some time,
67
handicap/son 146
race/son/friendsl51
index
service199
schizophrenia 221
quote
L.L.:
teaching/schizophrenia
Seattle schools 248 M. C,
child abuse/
conflict
and when he came back and entered, the, sm, small dining room where we were, I said,
"who is that lady you were talking to?" And he said she was one of the cleaning ladies in
his building. Now, you see, that, that's they type of thing he always did. He always has
recognized the person that was on the, trying to get a start. That's su, something to be said
for people. Now today they must have been short in the dining room of help, somebody
didn't come to serve. And our executive director dawned an apron and started to pour
coffee or tea. And I, I admire that among people. I've done a great deal of that myself.
And, when other people have noticed it, I've been surprised.
Now, one thing that I remember distinctly, very distinctly, was that when I was
teaching at Brighton, now Brighton had maybe 800 students or more. And I was on lun,
lunch-room duty. Course they always had to have a teacher on lunch-room duty, you
know that. And, the assistant cook in the kitchen, and th, and there was a long counter.
This is the kitchen back here. And she came up to the counter to, with a ladle to serve the
children their lunch, and she dropped and collapses with a stroke. And I was the one on
duty, and I saw her, just in front of me. And I sat down on the counter and swung my legs
around, picked up the ladle, and I started to serve the children. And the principle never got
over it. She thanked me a thousand times. She wrote me a note. She thought that was the
most wonderful thing. Now, to me, I didn't think anything of it.
But to her, now, and, and that's another thing, this principal had a sister who was
likewise a teacher, and she had mental problems. She was not married, ne, neither of the
teachers, there were thr, 3 girls, and they were all teachers and none of them are married.
But this girl must have been schizophrenic, I think. That's only my idea because you see a
sch, schizophrenic person can, with medication, you know, op, function if they're not real
bad. And. she came into the library one day and sat down and said that she'd like to talk to
me. And I sat down likewise opposite her like I'm sitting with you. And she said, I wish I
could talk about the problems that I have personally like you can talk about yours. Now, I,
I don't mean gossip, I don't mean just plain speaking about things, but I do mean opening
up. If people ask you a question, you tell the truth about it. You might just as well
function because everybody has something. If you look back enough in everybody's
family, you know, you'll find something. And to me, the world is full of people who need
help.
There are all kinds of people who are broken hearted, whose heart. Like my mother
always used to say, "There's many a smile that covers a broken heart." And I think that s
true.
The one woman that you said you thought was schizophrenic, what did you speak with her
about?
Well, she never did open up to talk about this sister, they always kind of covered it up, if
you know what I mean. Noting was ever said. But the teacher, but her sister, was a
teacher in the Seattle schools, so you get it from someone that teaches in her building that
she's had to take 2 or 3 months off. Well, the next thing you know, she's in a sanitarium.
That type of thing. Now, she'd, uh, uh, this principal never talked to me about her sister
again. Never mentioned it. And I never did either. But I heard from friends on mine that
taught in the building where she, the teacher was, that this was happening so often that the
principal was, you know, wished that she would resign because of her condition.
And it isn't, and I had the experience in the same building at Brighton where the
teacher next door to me lost her temper so many times that she slapped a child, a little girl.
And I saw it. And I couldn't, I couldn't deny it. I had to tell the truth. And because I told
the truth, this teacher to, took,had to take a leave of absence. And she was off for, oh
maybe 2 or 3 years because you can't let some things like that go by.
L. L. : Did you ever talk to that teacher?
275 M. C. : Yes, but I never talked about hu, her, her well, you can't call it temper, you know it's more
than just temper, when people lose control of themselves in a situation where you are
supposed to teach control. But that teacher had all kinds of trouble. And finally she
retired. But. and I felt sorry for her, but not so sony that I would want to have her for a
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239
index
children/
teaching291
war308
child abuse/
teaching
friend because she, she couldn't recognize that there was anything wrong with her, it was
always somebody else. And that's the way it is in life. It's difBcult for people to, to uh,
face up to situations unless you're kind of trained in doing it step by step. This is
something you don't learn and practice because it's, it's not good. You try to learn
something better.
L. L. : When did you start teaching again when your, after your children were born?
M. C. : Well, let me see. I, I, I got my life certificate in 1926, and then I was out from 1926 to I
guess it was 19, when did the war start? Uh, must have been 19,1, was out then for a nu,
number of years.
[see slide 27 for a picture of Margaret's 1923 Life-Time Teaching Certificate]
Uh, well, uh, uh, I got my life certificate in 1926, but then I substituted for a year or 2,
and then I went back and about 19,uh, 42, '42 at the beginning of World War II because
then they wanted married teachers because they couldn't get along with what they had
when the men went to war, volunteered. And so then I went back and stayed until '69
when I retired the first time. Then went back in '70, and then '71, and then in '72 they put
me on a, uh, substitute list, so, that's, uh, I finally, that was the end. But it was wonderful
and I hope whatever s, you get into, that you enjoy it as much as I.
L. L. : What did you enjoy so much about teaching?
M. C. : I loved every one of, every minute of it. There were times when it was gruesome, and it
was hard, and it was difficult, and, as I said before, the only thing I regretted was there
wasn't time to take care of all the problems. But I enjoyed the eagerness with which
children want to learn, and I was sorry for the boy that had never been is school practically,
and he was 12 or 14 years old. He lived out in, uh, country, way out in the country or in
the woods. And, uh, there were little children that you knew had problems. And they
would side up to you and want to talk when you didn't have the time because you couldn't
take it away from 10 or 12 or 40 other children. And, uh, it's that's the part, but just the
eagerness for learning, I think, was what attracted me to children. And I, I never had a
child I couldn't work with, with whom I couldn't work, excuse me. Uh, and some of them
were very, very sad cases, veiy sad. You could write a book on nothing but the sad ones,
you know.
L. L. : Do you have an example of one of the sad one?
349 M. C. : You want me to give you an example. Well, let's take the little 11 year old girl that
was living with her mother and her step-father. And, uh, her mother was making her a new
Easter dress, and stayed up to do it. And the father went in to the bedroom, and went to
bed with the little girl. And, uh, molested her. No particular, uh, well, he didn't inject
himself, but he did a lot to her. And, uh, that case went to court, and I was, uh, uh, su,
substitute principal at the time. And the little girl came in and told we all about it. I think I
mentioned that to you once, didn't I? Well, anyway, she came into the ofRce, and I told
her well, that was just between her and me; that we didn't talk to other people about it
[Margaret whispers as she says this] because of course, I knew better than to have it ever
get started. And, uh, but that went to court, and I even called up because here I was a
substitute, and everybody else that year was practically a substitute that was in command.
The secretary in school was in the hospital, and the cook in the lunch-room had, had a
stroke. There were all these things at once, were a downpour on me when I had never be,
been in, never hoped to be a principal, didn't want to be a principal. But anyway, but th,
that case went to court, and I asked the main, uh, the superintendent of elementary schools
if they would s, give a, the case to somebody else, but they didn't. They said I was doing
well. That was just a cover up, but anyway, we managed. But the end, in the e, well, in n,
the future, the judge said that this man, you know, should never be left with a girl alone; he
couldn't visit the home or she couldn't visit the home when he was there. That's, but you
see now that's, that's a mistake to because, uh, he probably would go out and do the same
thing again because he just got off the cuff, why not?
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teaching/
child neglect
L. L. : They didn't put him in jail, or...?
M. C. : You know, that's the trouble with these things, and, and who knows, of course, uh, I'm
sure that a great deal of this went on, uh, in other days, earlier, and people paid no
attention to it. It's only in recent years that they've done a great deal about this. But
that's, that's just one occasion.
418 And another occasion was about, uh, a boy I had in the sixth grade who would be 11
or 12. And, uh, uh, his mother had been a Seattle society woman, girl. And she had
married his father who was a, a, a, mu, musician in, uh, one of the orch, not an orchestra,
he has in, uh, something better than that. But it had to do with music. And, uh, evidently,
there had been disharmony in the home, and, uh, uh, this, the 2 children, he had a younger
sister whom I also had in the sixth grade, but she was younger than he. And, uh, the little
girl was eh, eh, uh, nice to work with. But both children were being raised by their
grandfa, mother. And that, I hear so much about that now-a-days. 30% of the children are
in a one-parent home, and of that number, maybe 25% are living with their grandparents. I
hear that in statistics, not that's the kind of thing I listen too, see. I could learn something
more that would be beneficial, more beneficial. But I do listen to those because I feel sorry
for the children. But this boy, actually, uh, I don't like to ku, speak about physical
appearances, but his physical appearance, you just knew he was mad at the world. He had
no mother, he had no father. See, the mother didn't want anything to do with them
because that meant work. But the poor grandmother, she labored, well, she finally sent him
to vis, to, to be with an uncle in, on a farm in Montana. And the last I heard, he had came
come back to West Seattle, and one of the teachers saw him on the street. And she called
me on the telephone and said, told me that she had seen him. And she said and he looked
just as bad as he always did. He was so disgmntled. He carried not a chip on one
shoulder, but a chip on both shoulders and. It was, it's sad when you see a life that could
be saved.
end Tape 6. side B
Tape?
sideA
teaching/
mentally ill
teaching
008 M. C. : [Margaret is telling about another one of her students]
...another boy in the sixth grade, and he had had, uh, difficulty, uh, family difficulty,
and he ended up at, uh, oh what was the name of the psychological school they sent then
to? I should know what it is, anyway. And when he was there, he wrote me time and time
again, and he said he prayed for me each night. He said that in the letter. I kept the letter
for years. I don't know if I still have it or not; I doubt it.
L. L. : How come he prayed foryon7
M. C. : Long after he was in and out of this school that was de, for mentally disturbed children, and
uh, uh I kept if for a long, long time, the letter because I was so emotionally, uh, interested
in what he had said because he always spoke so pleasantly of me. And I remember the
psychiatrist that, uh, I, I was asked to stay after school one night, and this psychiatrist was
coming. The principle was to be there and his, I don't know if his parents were there that
night or not, but anyway, uh. And the psychiatrist that examined him, uh, told me later that
he kept his eye on me to see if there was any rejection of the boy when I spoke with him.
See, you never know who's looking at you, do you?
025 L. L. : And what was it like to start teaching again in 1942 after being with your family for so
long?
M. C. : ...then I stayed, where did I start in?
L. L. : No, what was it like to go back to teaching?
70